The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. How does it open? On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Thomas Jefferson. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" Anyone else know? Bastin Frres To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. I can send pictures of it. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. Bazin F.J. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Search. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). We have provided you Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Colette Victor thanks for the help so far. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Marlin-Savage-Winchester There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Very long barrel. - Galoppin Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. Testing the gun There's no indication of choke--but that didn't begin in Belgium until 1898. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Bernard Victor & Cie There are a number of 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Members . It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Anonymes 1860-1870. Do you have any information on them? for your continued support, encouragement and admonishment. The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Bauduin Charles % 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Courard . If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. this location now so you can return often. If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Very helpfull once again. Or any info? Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. Collings Hadelin Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. Beckers G. B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. Bte" tells us the maker: it stands for "Dieudonn Debouxthay Brevete", or "Patent Dieudonn Debouxthay" in English. In 1888 it was decided by a joint meeting of the Gunmakers Company and the Birmingham Guardians that a new supplementary proof for smokeless powder should be instituted in 1893, 1896, and 1904; the rules were further adjusted to allow for new powders. Serial Numbers. Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. How do I price this piece? I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. Closset Louis ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. The "D.D. Thanks Hause. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Cachoir to share our findings by this means of communication. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. The blue is rough but the action works. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . determination. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Ever seen that? Quick Facts Bultot Jean In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Can be without star and ring. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. Wish I could be more helpful! Boden insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. the 20th century. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. These include the to identify the manufacturer. Collette Lopold Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Many thanxPS:. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Ancion DD & Fils The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many The The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. 1870-1898. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Mauser was a late entry in 1888. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. It was mandatory post-1924. After years of looking at and trying Clment Charles Philibert Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. A voluminous schedule of rules and scales of charge for the proof of various kinds of small arms is in existence, and the proof is the same at London and at Birmingham; though different proof marks are employed. Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB gTb0nnPTbj\uD`.3;7 ;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M Board Of Charlier Ch. Ancion Jacques & Cie Rifles & Musket Information. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Black powder proof for rifles and shotguns. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. Bouquin Ad this book online and pay it through Paypal. will normally provide the information needed to make a caliber Its weight Again, thank you I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. Andr M.J. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . Baron Emile I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. Bovy Thodore Joseph Thank you for Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Arendt Maurice Now, at age 63, Jensen has reached the stage in life where he's ready to start letting go of his collection. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. Chaineux J. Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive Home | Login | Register. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. Seen BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 It's complete. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. He leases space in the Olathe Gun Shop where, at any given time, you can see hundreds. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Closset J.M. Counet-Leboulle J. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Thank you Jerry. Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. 1840-1860. I know the bottom image. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Bernimolin These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? Serial Numbers. Counet - Genot No maker's name at all. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. This will be an on going 1860-1870. I recently decided to clean it up. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin.